Video chat with David Dollar (4)
Updated: 2008-02-22 16:51
CD: From time to time, we have noticed that China is changing and the world economic environment is also changing. And the focus of the World Bank and China's portfolio is also moving from one focus area to another. So what is the future? Will there be any change?
DD: That's a great question. At the early stage of reform, the World Bank worked on a lot of basic issues of the market economy. But China has been so successful, that it naturally makes sense to have the program evolve as China's needs evolve. So what's happened in the last few years is environment is really emerging as our main area of focus. So I recently did a little count, and in the last three years, 75 percent of the projects have a direct environmental objective. So most of the projects now are focused on cleaning up the water pollution, or reducing air pollution, or increasing energy efficiency, or reforestation. We're the largest external financer of reforestation in China.
CD: So you mean we can look forward to more projects from the World Bank involved in the environmental area?
DD: Yes, that seems to be where a lot of the demand is coming from, and we're very happy to meet that demand, because I do think we have some good expertise. What we try to do is bring in some lessons from around the world. But then, China is very good at adapting those lessons. You can't just copy what some other country did; you have to adapt it to the local circumstances.
CD: But at the same time, when you complete some projects in China, will the Chinese projects offer lessons to other developing countries?
DD: Absolutely. China is really building up its cooperation with Africa now. And the World Bank is trying to work together with China on this. One of our activities – you know the Chinese government is financing a policy workshop and study tour for African officials - and they've asked the World Bank to help design this. Aside from classroom talk, which is only so much talk, we're also going to go out to the field and look at some successful World Bank projects in agriculture, in transport. These are things from the past, things that the World Bank was helping China with 10 or 15 years ago, that have been very successful. I think there are some very good lessons for other developing countries.
CD: Any specific areas?
DD: The one I just mentioned was really more on the knowledge side. So we're going to develop a training course that's really focused on what are the lessons from China. And those are debatable, so we'll bring in some very good Chinese academics and Chinese officials, but also I have a perspective on what I think is important. And the Africans . . .
CD: Are they interested?
DD: Oh, they are so interested! I just got this email from Nigeria, from a professor. You know, what did China do to grow so quickly? Can you summarize for us what are the key lessons from China? There's so much interest, so I think the knowledge side is very important. But we're also trying to work with China on the investment side. The World Bank and China are trying to find some development projects. For example, road project in Ghana, we're looking at together, and a power project in Mozambique. And we're looking at a three way partnership where you'd have the Mozambiquan government and the Chinese government providing some financial assistance and technical expertise and the World Bank is also contributing.
CD: Which are the Chinese institutions you work most closely with，like the Export-Import Bank of China (China Exim Bank)
DD: We work with different agencies on different issues. So on this work on Africa, our main partner is China Exim Bank. They're like the World Bank, in that they make concessional loans to Africa. We make concessional loans to Africa, and so we've decided that we'd try to do some of this together, where the African countries are interested. Because, I think the African countries can potentially get more if you can get the Chinese expertise in financing together with the World Bank expertise on financing working on a particular project or issue.
CD: Will there be any other agencies from China (involved)?
DD: We're very open. China's cooperation with Africa involves a lot of agencies. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is crucial, the Ministry of Finance. Finance is a lot of this. The Ministry of Commerce is the official agency for grant assistance. So, we are trying to work with all of these groups. But frankly, on the Chinese side, it's a little confusing to have so many agencies involved.
CD: Well, I can imagine. There must be some special staff in your office dealing with different Chinese agencies on a day to day basis. I guess it's a quite tiring job.
DD: Well, it's very rewarding. As I said, there's really a lot of interest in Africa right now; Africa really values its partnership with China. I think the World Bank can help that partnership develop in a smooth way, so we take it very seriously.
CD: What about the rest of Asia? Will there be any chance that the World Bank and China and some other Asian countries will work together on certain projects like the Mekong River and some other things?
DD: Yes, absolutely. I mentioned the partnership with Africa because Africa is such an important development challenge for the world. But here in this neighborhood, we're interested in doing the exact same thing: working with China on collaborative projects in Mongolia – I'm also the country director for Mongolia. Phillipines – we have some things we're looking at together. Vietnam and Mekong region, you just mentioned. And also Pacific islands, like Papua New Guinea and some of the other islands. So we're very enthusiastic about working with China throughout Asia.